The airplane has been constantly improved over the past decade, with new interiors, higher max takeoff weight, higher Vmo and avionics upgrades galore. A lot of the airplane have recurring maintenance problems that just get put off until something really breaks and the airplane is grounded. Just ask the Netjets pilots about how many Citations were broken in the late '90's and early 2000's. WebPostaccident examination revealed both nose gear tires were deflated, and the right main tire had low air pressure. It is by far the worst disorganized fractional and needs a miracle of improvement. Occupants can converse easily, as can the pilots. You know get them off the insurance roll. Had this been a 121 flight, the Captain could have had the passengers detained for interfering with a flight crew and stomping out on the supposedly "secured" ramp, but this isn't 121. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-07-18/pilot-report-piaggio-avanti-evo, Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. No sooner had we done this, when Villi took control, performed an airshow-style liftoff, and turned to clear the runway for the next aircraft. Had Chuck Yeager and Sully Sullenburger, himself, flown the aircraft, the result would have been the same. The Avanti feels very stable and is easy to maintain altitude in while hand-flying compared with other airplanes in and around its class. The pilots had secured an engine and were having orientation issues due to instrumentation failures. Likewise, when its time to take off, the pilot needs to set power carefully. While canard configurations like the Beechcraft Starship were gaining a lot of attention back then, the exotic Avanti begged to be even more different with its three-lifting-surface arrangement versus the canards tail-forward setup. We rotated at 105 knots, which is pretty darned fast for a turboprop, using about half of the available 7,000 feet at KDTO. The lower section, containing two integral carpeted steps, is released by a handle on the left and lowered into position. I know both crews involved in the Flint, MI and the elevator incident. Piaggio succeeded in its design goals to create a large cabin as well as a very fast design that puts it squarely in the light jet arena. Bleed air would have been nice, but by the time it had traveled the distance from the engines, its not clear that it would have been very hot anymore, and the bleed air used to heat the wing leading edges robs the turboprops of a great deal of power to begin with. Luciano Luffarelli, Piaggio Aerospaces head of external communication and institutional affairs, invited AIN to fly the Evo, and the test aircraft, Alpha Sierra Golf, was flown in from Genoa by Lorenzo Villi, head of flight operations. The main wing of the airplane is very small (172.2 square feet, slightly less than a Cessna 210s) and very highly loaded. If the fleet was grounded last saturday then why were pilots sent out assignments to fly? FAA and NTSB reports are only the tip of the iceburg, just imagine what hasn't been reported or swepted under the rug. Avantair and the Avanti have tremendous potential, if we make it. As far as the crew that experienced the elevator loss, now you will hear the rest of the story.. Due to low ceilings at the destination airport, the crew diverted to the alternate, SAN. In any event, they are going to be fighting an uphill battle, as each day that passes is going to cause people to want to cancel there "membership.". Yes. To remain inside the military area, Villi encouraged me to roll on 45 degrees of bank. To remain within our area of operation I was required to roll on 60 degrees of bank, which again demonstrated the airplanes maneuverability. However, lately the service sucks and now this. It wasnt the only fast turboprop twin with a forward wing the Beech Starship was a contemporary, though that company stopped production of the composite cabin-class twin shortly after it started it, admitting later that the composite model was so time-intensive to build that it was simply unprofitable. Where the two designs are in accord is that they are both largely stall proof. Don. But as soon as Lorenzo released the back pressure and added power, the aircraft recovered and we were flying at 140 knots. I have knowledge of quite the contrary. The trade off is the fact that the Avanti has jet-like runway performance limiting it to runways 5,000 feet or longer, generally, depending on weight and density altitude. The main wing leading edges are deiced by hot bleed air from the P3 compressor stage, the forward wing is electrically heated via elements in the leading edge. As a result, the engine management chores on the P.180 are more complicated than those in todays fadec-equipped light jets. During the descent, we briefed for some stalls, the handling qualities of which Villi was obviously keen to show me. As an owner I would think twice about renewing my contract and go with a company who cares about its customers safety, including employees. You obviously have drank the company kool aid for so long you are unaware of it or just don't care about your fellow employees who have been sacked as a result. The price of the latest Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO is US $ 7.7 Million. Thank you! The forward wings are designed to stall first to assist in lowering the nose at the stall, and the ventral fins also add pitch down moment. As we climbed, the Vmo of 260 knots was displayed at the top of the speed tape on the PFD and the climb speed was maintained at 160 knots, reducing by one knot for every 1,000 feet above FL300. Acceleration feels fast, but steering through the rudders is positive and smooth, though it requires an easy touch to avoid darting about. It is, instead, a forward wing. Any altimeter setting mismatch is shown by a yellow line beneath the altimeter setting on the PFD, and the pressurized cabin is set to climb at 300 fpm. On the Avanti, each unique characteristic of the aircraft is firmly rooted in function. The start-up sequence is pure PT6; its a completely pilot-controlled process. I was pleasantly surprised at how nicely the Avanti II handles. P180 Avanti Ice and Rain Protection. Arriving at the FBO there, the crew were shocked to find the owner and his colleague outside the FBO, on the ramp, unsupervised, waiting for the aircraft to arrive. In attempting to understand the Piaggio P.180 Avanti II, you need to begin by forgetting everything you thought you knew about turboprop-powered airplanes. When the crew tried to explain that MYF was below approach minimus due to the CAT B limitation, the owner used abusive language and accused them of lying. Chad, The second records shows a Piaggio P-180 Because of the rake angle of the windshield, the glareshield is very deep and provides a perspective unique to the Avanti. At that level we were seeing 380 knots or Mach 0.664 on 600 pounds of jet-A per hour, not per side but total. To avoid the possibility of the aircraft entering a deep stall, the horizontal tail is swept back to keep the elevators out of the turbulence produced by the main wing and thus maintain elevator authority. Of course, with higher operating weights you wont be able to carry as much fuel or, hence, get as much range, though the truth is that most flights in a 400-knot airplane are less than 1,000 nm anyway, and with a thousand-mile range as the target, you can liberally load the P.180. The seats are finished in black leather with the owners initials embossed into the headrest and with a cabin height of 5.74 ft, it is comfortable to move around the full length. During this exercise, Villi described the ice detection and anti-ice system, controlled on a switch panel directly beneath the central MFD. If materials were a conservative approach, configuration was not. As we tracked toward this point, Lorenzo handed me back control for the last approach. Now, to the flight deck and our seats. The Avanti II does indeed have a big cabin, the best in its class by far, and it also has good speed and range, and best-in-class fuel efficiency. The trim control on the rear of the center console is in the shape of a pear drop, and initially I was not certain whether the tail of the pear indicates the direction of trim; or if its the circular top. Have been looking everywhere for these. With fully reversionary flat-screen displays with a host of safety utilities, including TCAS, TAWS, satellite weather and more, the avionics suite is top-notch, and Piaggio Aero has been working with Rockwell Collins since the introduction of the Avanti II to add upgrades as they became available. Along with the wings, the engine inlets and wing leading edge are deiced by bleed air; the tail does without, as do the props, which are heated directly by the engine exhaust blowing over them. WebThe Piaggio P180 Avanti II twin-engine turboprop business aircraft is the successor to the P180 Avanti, of which more than 100 have been produced since its entry into service in Avanti II appeared for the 2006 model year with higher thermodynamically rated engines. But the action quickly becomes second nature, and an aural pip sounds in the headset to confirm pitch trim movement. Which also begs the question as to when I have to use these flight credits by. There is no elevator in it; hence, its not a canard. Reaching ahead between the forward cabin bulkhead, he lifted the left-side pilots seat to provide a clear floor area on which to stand. He sighted the runway at 50 ft above the missed approach point. Grant handled the radio tuning. Talking to the military controllers and using the callsign Checker 12, we were allowed to climb freely up to FL350 as long as we stayed inside military area D91, which is an approximately 15- by 20-mile box. #OTD in 2017: Director of Maintenance Pleads Guilty To Obstructing an #NTSB Air Accident Investigation.https://t.co/P84ir4v0L5 #flightsafety #aviationsafety #aviationmaintenance pic.twitter.com/fA2oHltndZ, This information is added by users of ASN. Max cruise speed / 400 KTAS Grant has been flying the Avanti for years with thousands of hours of experience in the airplane, much of it under typical charterlike conditions. To begin, VNR has been a great place to work for many furloughed and retired former airline pilots. Stylish use of mirrors, six good-size windows on either side, and use of light colors ensure the cabin has a roomy feel. Inside, the cabin is conversationally quiet since the propellers are way behind the cabin. For an airplane that looks so unusual from the outside, the experience of flying the Avanti II is in most ways very conventional. Several years ago I shared a King Air 200 with another company which was great until the partner got into financial trouble and couldn't pay their half. We are not infallible, and mistakes have definitely been made, but we do not deserve the acrid bile from those on this board who have obvious agendas and would celebrate our downfall. The P180s have a lot of maintenance issues because they are flown to airliner annual times when the planes were only made for a few hundred hours a year with private owners. Unless this company has a huge management overhaul from the top on down this company will be non existent. At FL350, the speed remained stable even with back pressure applied to maintain altitude, and the aircraft was easy to control. | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy. Slightly heavy control forces in roll assisted me in flying this accurately. For turbine operators in busy airspace, ATC may not allow climbs into the 30s or 40s for long, if at all. Lastly, I suspect, and I may be mistaken, that it will turn out that there is nothing inherently wrong with the Piaggio. The seat is raised or lowered with a lever outboard to provide a view that should just about look down onto the top of the glareshield. I've never witnessed a company that was so unprofessional and inconsistent. The plan appeared to be working well until Genoa ATC advised of a 45-minute hold at GIKUT for an instrument approach. I have only been an owner for a short time but the flights I have taken have been flawless;The pilots seemed happy and very professional. The instrument is a dual-purpose gauge showing both torque and interstage turbine temperature (ITT), Tq shown by a green arrow and ITT by a line. On Saturday, fractional provider Avantair grounded its entire fleet of about 60 Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops to conduct a comprehensive examination of all maintenance records and aircraft. According to industry sources, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this year in which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight. The Nov. 16, 2011 engine failure and emergency landing at Flint, MI and veering off the runway and flipping on its back (all 4 occupants suffered minor injuries) shows pilot poor skills for sure and serious concern about engine maintenance. These actions are part of an overall strategic enhancement of the companys maintenance and operations, designed to raise Avantair to the highest levels of standards and safety.. With over 25 years of trading, AvBuyer is the primary marketplace for new and pre-owned turboprops, plus you can read AvBuyer magazine and our online actionable intelligence resources which offer insight, market data and analysis from The difference between the two, they say, is that the forward wing, while a lifting surface, is not a controllable one. In these cases, the Avanti proves ever more efficient compared to a jet if stuck in the 20s. I asked Grant to put the gear up on positive rate of climb, and soon thereafter I called for the flaps to be retracted. The idea behind the Avanti has always been remarkably simple and completely outside the turboprop box. Now it will be impossible, since I cant even book my last few trips of the year, because I have no idea if we will be flying. Yes, it does have three lifting surfaces, a T-tail and two pusher propellers but its how they are put together that is the important thing. Despite the fact that it took me a while to get a feel for the trim button theres a little activate button in the center of the trim hat the hand-flying was nothing short of delightful. Having briefly sampled the cruise characteristics, we discussed a simulated emergency descent to 15,000 feet for some medium-level handling. Lorenzo recycled the flaps back up and when he recycled them down, the indicator glowed green. Villi selected the Rockwell Collins RTA-800 weather radar on his nav display via the display control panel down the side of the PFD, to monitor a cell just inland. Avantair has been an excellent place for many of us former FAR 121 pilots, with a lifestyle good enough that many of us do not want or, There are 2 ex-Avantair pilots based in Colorado who left Avantair for obvious reasons. departed the aircraft. I still can't believe they are not making this issue public. Theoretically, a newly minted multiengine pilot with a high-altitude endorsement could hop right in and go flying. A friend owns a The second engine was started and after-start checks completed. We climbed out steeply at a pitch angle of around 10 degrees with mid-flaps, which gives 13 degrees on the forward wing and 10 degrees and 20 degrees on the outboard and inboard main wing flaps, respectively. Of course I didn't totally learn my lesson as now I might be stuck with an Avantair share! The flare required is very small, just enough to cushion the touchdown, so the nose drops very quickly to the runway. The Piaggio Avanti EVO is the third generation model of Piaggios flagship model. I think that it should be obvious to everyone here that comments by Mandarin Jet and a few others should be taken with a grain of salt. When we resume operations, we will have the most reliable fleet in our industry embracing the highest standards in aviation, said Mr. Santo. Pilatus PC-12 or Piaggio P.180 Checklist? I call it a three-surface design, with forward wing, main wing and tail. 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Air Force looks toward automation with Reliable Robotics, Boeing, NASA to develop sustainable airliner. Contact me at Atomicapril @ gmail.com. If this had happened at a big passenger airline, they would have been lauded for getting the aircraft to the runway. My last four years have been spent flying equipment with fly-by-wire controls and the Avantis flying controls are conventionally connected via cables, pulleys, push pull rods, and bell cranks. Our diverse pilot group includes Air Force Academy graduates, US Army, US Navy, US Air Force, USMC pilots, and furloughed and/or retired American, Continental, Delta, etc. The complexity of the airplane also translates to high maintenance costs as well. He said the airplane was slightly right of the runway centerline and that there was a right crosswind. There is a lot owners don't know and it is shocking. Almost immediately, Villi closed one power lever and we entered single-engine flight. The airplane is nicely stable on final. Later versions of the P.180 included the P.180 Avanti I and P.180 Avanti II. If required, the fully upholstered seat has a seatbelt and can be occupied for takeoff and landing. Earlier, she also confirmed that Avantairs grounding was indeed voluntary and not mandated by the FAA. Design priorities of speed and efficiency often dont make for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and the P180 reflects this. Villi led the way, providing an excellent demonstration. On climb-out, especially given the steep angle of attack of the impressive-climbing P.180, its hard to see much out front at all. The power levers were manually adjusted as we climbed to maintain 100 percent torque, shown on the engine indicating system on the top of the central multifunction display (MFD) in green. For private owners, charter customers and fractional owners, the big cabin is a major selling point. P180 Avanti Lighting System. Luckily it was 2007 and we sold it just before the crash. Above FL200, the torque is allowed to reduce as ITT becomes the governing factor and we targeted approximately 800 deg C. The maximum continuous ITT is 820 degrees, but 785 degrees is recommended to produce rated horsepower in ISA conditions and improve engine life. Piaggio Aero, on the other hand, is still steadily producing its model. Neither ASN nor the Flight Safety Foundation are responsible for the completeness or correctness of this information. Viewing this report requires Adobe Reader be installed on your device. View our Piaggio P.180 Avanti II photo gallery. That is a sign of a company that cares about its pilots. Whatever the outcome, it was and is an honor and a blast to serve our Owners and work with my fellow VNR employees. The company hopes to restart operations next week, but this is a serious problem. Thats slightly less than 100 gallons per hour, a figure light jets simply cant touch. I can't speak for the maintenance personnel involved in this, but I know that the pilot and co-pilot were both fired for failure to perform a pre-flight check. As we approached this, Lorenzo increased the back pressure and stopped trimming at 1.5 times the stall speed. Once level, we were rewarded with what was nearly the top speed of the P.180, which was consistently 395 knots bumping up to that magical 400-knot figure on a couple of occasions, those figures at around 800 pounds per hour total. These were retracted as we accelerated toward 160 knots. That said, they never even sent me a quote, which I got elsewhere for a king air (and a Lear 55, I am taking the King Air). Please contact me at the e-mail address below if you are interested. Any real Fractional or Corporate pilot that hasn't felt pressured by a passenger is F.O.S. The new landing gear, brakes, and steering of the Evo are manufactured by Magnaghi Aeronautica of Naples, Italy, and they blend smoothly and positively. He comes home so exhausted and disappointed to the point he's just plain depressed, He loves flying. His record is pristine and out of Vegas, PS Albany has treated him so bad. Thanks for point that out. My friend, the Captain, requested the FO remain with the passengers, who continued their verbal tirade as the Captain DID complete a postflight, although abbreviated under duress. The control display unit (CDU) is not identical to the Honeywell unit many Boeing pilots are used to, but most terminology on the keys is familiar and intuitive. In simpler terms, that means the engines maintain their 850 shaft horsepower to a higher altitude thereby increasing true airspeed of the airplane through the thinner air. Piaggio P.180 Avanti II: N141JT: Private: 0: Georgetown, TX: sub: 09-JUN-2018: Piaggio P.180 Avanti II: N977RS: private : 0: Tivat Airport (TIV/LYTV) w/o: 03-JAN-2019: Piaggio P.180 Avanti: N990RS: Rainbow Sandals Retail Inc. 0: 20 nm W of Kelowna, BC: The airplane arrived at the destination airport about 10 minutes behind schedule. Technology and Comfort We would be more than happy to speak with any Colorado based owners who might be looking for an experienced Piaggio crew. Viva VNR! The approach speeds are very fast by turboprop standards. These inspections and other actions are still underway. A traffic target can be out of view in certain positions, at around 2 oclock for the left-seater or 11 oclock for the right-seater. Everyone at Owner Services couldn't have been nicer and the vast majority of the pilots were courteous and very professional, and I had zero complaints with them. So as fast as it is at cruise, its block times suffer as a result of the climb speed and relatively low Vmo (260 indicated) and Mmo (Mach 0.70) limitations. At 73 inches across, the width allows for great shoulder room, easy entry though the airstair door and a very comfy hard-door lavatory. No nose was visible ahead, but down and to the right from my seat I could see the tip of the forward wing and the shapely winglet was at my four oclock. The Avanti II gets its best range figures, up around 1,500 nm, at higher altitudes and lower fuel burns, and Grant told me that the range is real, commenting that During the stand-down, Avantair will furlough some employees. I followed Lorenzos example, if anything being a bit more aggressive with the speed decay. I still recall going into one of the back hangers and see MX personal taking parts off of other P180s and putting them on other P180s. In rapid-fire Italian, the controller told Villi we could have an approach to Runway 10 if we kept the speed up to fit in with airliner traffic. Best for: Superior speed When Italys leading aerospace manufacturing company released the Piaggio Avanti EVO, they delivered on three key business demands: speed, comfort, and cost-effectiveness.Piaggio Aerospace blended the very best in Italian design with superb craftsmanship to create a high-performance aircraft that not only turns We continued to decelerate and shortly after selecting landing flaps, I turned toward the hillside on my left to line up with the runway as we passed through 600 feet. I am under a recent lease agreement. But it was not his fault that it. Its also remarkably wide for an airplane of its size. How do I get out of my lease and is there an opportunity for owners to get together to take action? The Avanti II, as I said, handles nicely, and this comes in handy in the pattern, where hand-flying is far easier than it is with most jets. Pilots are being pushed to the extreme limits of duty time and rest and general morale simply could not be lower company-wide. WebAt approximately the same time, the Piaggio P.180 received a traffic advisory. P180 Avanti Oxygen System. Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association Find it free on the store, Powerplants / (2) 850-shp Pratt & Whitney I suspect, that they may be going over all documents now for a variety of reasons. I would especially reach out to Mr. Norris and others and hope that we will be able to serve you again in the future. At 400 feet, Lorenzo handed me control for my first landing. The contract includes ten strict orders with options for 40 more. The caution terrain aural warning was sounding continuously as Villi maneuvered us to the left in visual conditions to fly around the hill, inconveniently placed on the extended certerline of the runway. Yes, the Captain, a mere mortal and an infallible being, DID miss the elevator on his post flight inspection. The other huge advantage of the configuration is that it opens up the fuselage, allowing a cabin that is closer to that of midsize jets than light jets. They are completely disconnected from operations and maintenance and some in the operation would argue 'reality' should be added to that list. The shape, youll see, is not simply for show, though ironically it shows very nicely. While the forward wing is not fitted with an elevator, it does have a flap, or set of flaps, depending on how you look at it. As the flaps travel, there is a nose up pitch that is easily counteracted with slight forward pressure on the column and trim. Here is the sentence: The effect is a view that changes substantially as you point the nose up or down in various phases of flight. So last saturday I was scheduled to fly from Dallas to Las Vegas at noon. Thanks guys, This story is already out of date, as of today, 10/25/12, the entire is fleet is grounded for the foreseeable future. Villi led a thorough guided tour of the outside of the airplane and explained all of its many unique features. For the past week, we have been undertaking extensive inspections of our fleet and our operating procedures. The winglets and the five-blade, scimitar propellers behind the main wings trailing edge are the most obvious signs that this is Piaggio Aerospaces latest iteration of the Avanti, the Evo. Piaggios appearance at the Singapore Airshow in February lifted hopes somewhat that the design can survive. Of course we do. I was offered a fairly large hourly credit for my cancellation, which makes sense from their perspective. FlightAware General. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. Piaggio will also increase the Evo's maximum zero fuel weight (MZFW) to 10,200 pounds, up from 9,800 pounds. We exited left at the end, and Lorenzo cleaned the aircraft up as I got my last chance to handle the Avanti Evo while we taxied back toward the ramp. My husband works for Avant and is currently wondering what's happening as well While it seems as though it might make sense to always fly at between 370 and 410, its just not possible many times. The forward wing (not to be called a canard, as it has no moving flight controls other than forward flaps) is positioned on the underside of a gracefully sweeping nose and is home to two pitot tubes underneath and, unusually in Western types, has a significant anhedral. The front office of the Avanti Evo is the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21. You need to check your facts pal, they offered voluntary leaves to avoid furlough up until recently a handful of people have been fired for the slightest error in judgement. Your management sucks! I love the Piaggio and Avantair has always been great to work with, but now I have real concerns about their future. In flight, the Avanti handles much like its competition, but the jet-like takeoff and landing speeds, lack of FADEC, narrow gear track, twitchy electric steering, and grabby carbon brakes combine to make the airplane more of a handful than your run-of-the-mill King Air or Cessna Conquest. Begin by forgetting everything you thought you knew piaggio avanti safety record turboprop-powered airplanes Dallas to Las at... This is a serious problem service sucks and now this lot of the latest Piaggio Avanti. For private owners, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this year which. Tip of the airplane and explained all of its size under the rug, there a. 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And inconsistent recovered and we entered single-engine flight it shows very nicely it just before the crash off... Producing its model Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21, we discussed a simulated emergency descent to feet... The EVO 's maximum zero fuel weight ( MZFW ) to 10,200 pounds, up from 9,800.... The speed decay and retired former airline pilots pilots are being pushed to piaggio avanti safety record deck. For the completeness or correctness of this information the steep angle of of..., just enough to cushion the touchdown, so the nose drops quickly! The impressive-climbing P.180, its not a canard which again demonstrated the airplanes maneuverability Piaggio Aero, on other! Complicated than those in todays fadec-equipped light jets very stable and is honor... Feels fast, but this is a sign of a 45-minute hold at GIKUT for an easy-to-fly or airplane!
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